Monday, February 9, 2009

Removing the Power Of Psychiatry Part Three

Mark wrote this thoughtful post in response to my post "Removing the Power Of Psychiatry"

So I thought I would further the conversation a little and see where it goes! I Welcome all your insight out there in the bloggery world.

I came up with this

It has to be recognized psychiatrists put people in jail, not a hospital. Psychiatrists put people in jail until the behave properly. Behaviour , for the most part is a choice.

Society needs to be protected from the insane criminal, which do exist.

The problem then is injustice. Injustice of a “different” person judged a criminal.

In the judicial world when a police officer testifies what he observed and heard (in a crime), his/her world is believed . He/she is a sworn agent of the state.

When a psychiatrist testifies what he/she believes, he/she is believed as he/she has a diploma.

It is known there are bad police, and they have special police to find the bad ones.

It should be known there are bad psychiatrists and an organization to find the bad ones.

My idea is a group to watch the watchers, and have the power to strip bad psychiatrists of their power.

Dear Mark:

I believe your concept in the presumption of being different predominantly in Mental Health is assumed criminal. We as a society embrace difference all the time in many forms, persona's, artistic venues, and other labeled disabilities.

I believe we differ slightly is in the policing policy! I believe in the construct that psychiatry should in essence have all power removed until they can truly validate intrusion upon another human being. I can’t even begin to express how self determination is the key factor and empowerment tool that needs to be nurtured and weighed as the predominant factor in all Mental Health Court rulings and treatment processes. If you go to any mental institution you will find somewhere on a stark barren wall the “Patients’ Bill Of Rights”! It is stated quite clearly that the least restrictive means is always first priority in any setting or treatment, and must be up held to/and above all others.

It is common knowledge and accepted medical ethical standard that especially with psychotropic medication (and Like Treatments as in ECT so on and so forth) intervention should always be the last resort option in all believed to be Emotionally Different in Constitutional Variations or as they call in Psychiatry land Diagnosis/Label /illness; since it is always deemed the most restrictive form of treatment. Even isolation and restraint is listed below psychotropic medication as being less restrictive. Once you enter a person’s mind and alter the chemistry and behavior artificially, you have entered in to the realm of supreme omnipotent territory.

If I was to the create the paradigm that would serve as a new and improved model; psychiatry would have all powers removed and be replaced with a moral conscience driven socially bound with oversights controlling the model with an extremely high bar of the most humane ethical practice, least restrictive intervention, and fully inclusive of criteria which involved the patients choice; including full disclosure of all options and possible negative/positive consequences from stated options/treatment; that would also include all available modalities including holistic and alternative options before any right of self determination was even remotely brought into question or subverted by professional or legal means. As an extra safety measure I would insure honest peer review, consolation, full legal representation, a broad spectrum of debate, and the protection of civil legal recourse before any basic human rights were infringed upon an individual for the sole purpose of treatment related to (basically all DSM diagnostic labels which over time should be phased out completely) subjective and observational afflictions.

Psychiatry has a false paradigm starting right out of the gate in its premise, since they use subjective criteria they artificially create through the DSM, which they then use to validate pseudo science, which in turn they use in false treatment modalities. This goes against the whole concept of empowerment and self determination; since they make up all the rules and how they will be enforced. The courts view them in a legal sense as on par to laws; yet they are anything but laws, they are invisible parameters subjectively created to a particular sub-class of humanity.

Therein lays the root of the evil and the basic problem we must overcome and change. This is where the door opens for the abuse by psychiatry and pharmaceutical industries upon a sub-set of human beings. Opening this door wide to a recognized darker side of human nature and takes it on the ordained course which disenfranchises the afflicted.

Change can and will only happen when those false presumptions have been stricken down, discarded, and the power is rightfully returned to where it belongs; in the individuals own hands.

Yours Truly,



Anonymous said...

Peace be with you Stan

It is all well and fine to think what you would do with a blank slate. If we were to have that we would have prosecuted more of the nazi psychiatrists, and imported less of them into our "psychiatric" field with operation paperclip. It is reported that after WWII one third of our psychiatrists were ex-nazis. Guess which third took off with the "brainchemistry" theory.

Today we already have an oppressive police state mental health system. We need desperately to start reversing that trend. First if you are going to put people on highly addictive drugs, you must have a way to get them off them. Second, court was originally to be used only with those who were a danger to themselves or others. That should require evidence equal to what it requires to put someone in jail for life. Thirdly, the law requires full disclosure in order to obtain "informed consent." A complete list of all side effects and their true effects, an honest prognosis of success, a complete understanding of the lack of any scientific proof as to mental illness, brain chemistry theories, and anti-psychotic success, and a full exploration of alternative therapies should be discussed when ever drugs are offered. And lastly a grass roots movement of people effected by these policies needs to arise.

Many groups around the world have taken their own mental health in their own hands. Support groups, such as Hearing Voices Network, seem the best mental health strategy going. It is the idea of create the world you lobby for.

May is their "mental health month." It would be a great time to stand up against these oppressive paradigm shifts. Most people don't have a clue what happens in the mental health system. I am sure you've heard about how "Ten Days in a Mad House" changed the way mental institutions were run. Just like back in Nellie Bly's day sane people are being labeled insane by an unescapable bureaucracy. And also just like in Nellie Bly's day, informing the public as to the truth is the only thing that will bring change.

love eternal

Mark Krusen said...


I agree with both You and Tad. I believe we do have an "oppressive police state mental health system".I've been a guest of their fine facilities 3 times in the last 6 years.

Each time was more underwhelming than the last. Because of the experience from the last time I went in, I swore that no matter what I wouldn't go in again.

You go to the Psych E.R. asking for help and you are essentially giving them permission to take over your life. You gentlemen {Term used loosely in Stan's case} have expressed quite well what needs to be changed.

Stephany said...

I left this comment at Furious Seasons:

" if society is going to employ its right to detain people in psych units, then it simply has to provide them with an abuse-free environment, at a minimum, or that society loses its right to detain people. The snake pit has got to become a thing of ancient history." Dawdy

1.If society is going to employ its right to detain people in psych units, then it simply has to provide them with an abuse-free environment.

2.Society loses its right to detain people.

3.The snake pit has got to become a thing of ancient history.

With this as a base, the psychiatric paradigm for care (which is substandard, with low expectation for recovery)will change. It's getting society at large to care enough to create something better for those who might need it.

As a mom who has been inside far too many medicaid funded psych hospitals with my daughter, I can safely say that there needs to be change and that finding one's self in distress and needing mental health care it is alarming and scary what happens to people.

My daughter was given forced injections, was threatened with sexual assault, and I was also in danger. The danger is created by poor systems in place(gender specific floors could help)...I've been inside high end hospital psych wards where it was like a Four Seasons 5 star hotel; and I've been inside medical hospital psych ward floors.

As a private insurance card carrier you get what you pay for: and the life time cap should not run out on a kid at age 18 like my daughter. And you can't pay for a private policy, because all insurance companies share info.

So on medicaid, you see the real deal. The snake pit hells, the places that have cemetaries.

I personally would not ever check myself into a psych ward anywhere, if in a crisis after what I've seen, and I know the outcome; come out on meds, have a med tweak, make a bead bracelet and get tossed into an overcrowded stimuli arena that is not therapeutic.

Doctors in these places have no other way to treat patients and pharma has got that by the balls.

They use 'danger to self or others' very easily to detain someone 72 hrs in wa. state. They used 'danger to traffic' on my daughter.

The ER....oh well that is just inhumane care at best.

I have to say I have little hope any of it will change paradigm-wise--my only advice is to stay away from hospital psych wards at all cost.

Stephany said...


I left that comment at this article at Furious Seasons re:"Feds Find NYC Psych Hospital "Nightmarish, Prison".

Stan said...

Dear Stephany:

Unfortunately the story in this article out of New York is the general rule and not the exception in many state institutions. I remember spending time in training at Metropolitan State Hospital in Norwalk California; the Feds almost shut the place down for the inept care they were providing.

A patient was killed in a take down, and after all was said and done; they closed the adolescent units at this institution and mandated change.

But don't be fooled, changing something on paper and in policy is one thing; but changing care standards, an overworked staff's mentality, and a entrenched modality is a whole different animal.

Most States don't even have licensed care staff minimums and use untrained and non-professional staff in the vast majority of patient contact and care.

I can tell you without any reservations that even with licensed staff minimums, care was sorely lacking; yet without some of those committed, caring, and sometimes very brave individuals; these places are worse than a prison in basic human rights and care!

I won't even get started in this comment on the issue of treating patients with dignity or self determination; because it just isn't happening.

It's truly a living Hell and Nightmare for anyone caught in this Mental Health System.

Yours Truly,

Mark p.s./Mark p.s.2 said...

People have been sold that depression and mental illness is a brain chemical imbalance that psychiatrist fix with the proper medicines.
Until this idea-belief is broken and exposed as a lie, psychiatry will have power.
And people WANT to believe in an easy chemical solution.

People need psychiatry, this is evident by the inversive hatred of Tom Cruise and Scientology for being a religion.

Science can't put hope or wisdom into a pill.

Ana said...

Just dropping by to say hello.
I'll be back to comment.
New computer just instaled. Lots of catch ups.

Anonymous said...

Peace be with you Stan

I was talking with a friend today, and was told of an abusive incident at our local Psych hospital(SV). I had worked with a lawyer a few years ago on a conservatorship case where the person checked into SV made the exact same allegations, against who I believe to be the exact same employee. But nobody believed this person because she was labeled MI, and had a grudge against SV.

The same type of discrediting happened with Gundersen, the ex-Blue Like police chief accused of giving knock-out drugs to victims of his rapes. When two police women can forward our community believe them, but back in 2005 when a homeless mother made the exact same claims she was dismissed as crazy. I wasn't running the Plazoid then, but we recorded it then:

I also think of Stan as quite a gentle man, especially when compared to me.

love eternal

Stephany said...

Mark said: "Science can't put hope or wisdom into a pill."

That a brilliant statement. Furious Seasons has a post up today where a reader asked Philip how he manages 'bipolar'--which Philip questions his dx and says pretty much the same thing Mark did here and what Stan wrote in his other post here about self-determination and finding self-keys to life success off of medications.

I appreciate your success stories,Mark and Stan (and Philip)--- you're all an inspiration to others that prove the current medication psych treatment model wrong.

Mark Krusen said...


I saw your comment over on Ana's blog. Thanks for standing up for us members of the weaker sex that can't or won't stand up for ourselves.

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